Curiosity is the key. Isn't it?

[Or-Tal Kiriati]

Addressing younger Israeli scientists, Ada Yonath, winner of the 2009 Nobel Prize for Chemistry said - curiosity was the key to scientific progress. "If one has curiosity, then one stands the chance of attaining a high level of scientific inquiry."
Read more here: http://is.gd/4deEp.
What room does the education system - with its busy curriculum - leaves for curiosity today?
Where can curiosity be encouraged and developed in your view?

[Mike]

Hi Shaii... hope this finds you well... cold rain here in southern new jersey...but at least the weekend is here :)

I think you expalin yourself extremely well.

This quote from you made me smile: "The truth is I barely have time to study for own pleasure - I always study for school and such, and when at last I have some free time, I usually don't spend it on learning."

The external nature of school has a way of doing that for all. I would say that my true learning really started after my formal schooling was over...it was then that my learning became self-directed. The system you currently find yourself in is external --- but if as you do what you need to do to "play the game of school" you can remain awake to any internal signs from your own spirit... it is there you may find your own meanings.

You also wrote...."What drives my curiosity..... and followed it a bit with this..
"When I don't understand something, or something I understand but it makes me think about other things I don't understand, I start to ask questions and look for answers."

Really very well said....QUESTIONS drive all learning.... find good... meaningful to yourself questions....and you will be on the road of true learning. Questions are much more important than answers... yet we spend very little time in schools on questions.

Sad to hear that the connections with the adults in your school are not very strong. The disconnection between adults in schools and kids in school grows larger as students get older.... thats too bad.... and does not need to be.

well...thanks for taking some time to explain yourself and your internal experience in school. I do not think it is a rare experience. Wonder why adults ...who choose to go into teaching.... keep the system and the people with-in it so dis-connected.

be well... mike

[Shaii Kiriati]

Hello Mike
it's funny to hear it's raining while here we had one of the hottest days this month.

I really agree that the questions are sometimes more important than answers. It's fun to ask questions and think about them, and finding the solution gives a good feeling- but after you find the answer, the only thing you can do with it is asking more questions.

About the relationship with teachers: there really are only few teachers who can speak with the students, and students can speak with them. I think I can divide the reasons for disconnection between teachers and students into 3 parts: the teachers' active actions, unaware actions of the teachers, and the students' actions.
It might surprise you, but I don't know a lot about student actions that may cause disconnection. In most cases I see students avoid teachers or bother them it is following some actions the teachers did befoer (except for some special cases of kids who are being "smart").
There are many things teachers do and don't always notice them that can cause disconnection. It starts with appearance- no matter how much you try to avoid it, appearance always affects the way we see people, even if it's just at the beginning. There are many teachers, mostly female (when I think about it, most of the teachers I ever met were women), that it's just scary to look at them.

When teachers speak and look bizarre, it's difficult to respect them. When teachers behave too 'teacherly' (I hope you'll understand what I mean and I hope I didn't hurt anyone, I just couldn't find any better word to replace this one), students will stay away because it feels like the teacher is here to do his or her job, which is to teach you in class, give you homework and tests, and write your grades- and not a single thing more. Outside of the class the teacher and the student are in completely different worlds.

Sometimes, teachers use behavior-rules to cause disconnection. Teachers are probably unaware of the things I wrote before. But when a teacher sets rules you can safely say that almost the only purpose it serves is to create disconnection, or separation between teacher-students. In my opinion, when a teacher decides about a single way we should call him, how should our notebooks look like and how we should speak in class - it is not a really good way to achieve quite, order and listening: the best way for it is to make the students respect you, by proving your value (contents wise) in class. If the class is quite because of rules, there's a small chance they're really listening, and most chances they feel like learning is a punishment, and nothing would really be 'learned' this way (again, it's my opinion, from how I see things).

I'm curios to know what do you think- I know what I see is only a little part of the whole picture, and I wish to know where are the mistakes I did trying to build a whole puzzle when I have one piece.

[Mike]

Hi Shaii... hope this finds you well. Well our storm is finally over here and we are back to fall weather.... chilly but sunny! It is funny how small the world can become using this machine.... we can now talk to folks all over the world.... and the "time" and season thing gets more real. Ian is just moving into spring...way down under.... your still very warm..... kinda amazing.

You wrote: "It's fun to ask questions and think about them, and finding the solution gives a good feeling- but after you find the answer, the only thing you can do with it is asking more questions."

Yep.... that is basically it in a nut shell! Questions leading to some knowledge...then other questions that take one still deeper or in another direction! Funny...schools spend little time teaching kids or staff to ask good questions.... it seems the root of all learning.

I want to thank you for taking time to explain adult student realationships. My experience...now going on over 25 years in many kinds of schools matches yours and your reasons are well thought out. Connections are an important part of learning.... those teachers or adults....although rare...are what i think of as "turnaround" teachers.

Wonder how many of the adults on our site have had the experience of a turnaround adult in their lives. My take is many times it might even be a family member.... but it could also be a teachers who can ...become a turnaround person for many of the young people they see on a daily basis.

Your take here is i believe right on the money:
"When teachers behave too 'teacherly' (I hope you'll understand what I mean and I hope I didn't hurt anyone, I just couldn't find any better word to replace this one), students will stay away because it feels like the teacher is here to do his or her job, which is to teach you in class, give you homework and tests, and write your grades- and not a single thing more. Outside of the class the teacher and the student are in completely different worlds."

Well said and very sad. This seperation is not very ideal for teaching anyone...yet it seems that the older the students get....the less personal the relationship becomes.

For me... as a teacher it is hard for me to teach anyone anything without me knowing something about them! Learning starts with the learner.... not the teacher or the subject... we seem to have that a bit backwards.

what i think... i think you are seeing reality very well.

This of course is an adult probelm that remains un-seen or under appreciated....

Does your school ever do surveys and ask the students about their experience at school...like a questionnaire?

Be well... mike

[Or-Tal Kiriati]

Hi Mike,
As far as I know, schools very rarely ask students for their opinions about teachers.
Also, the employment terms for most teachers in Israel, and the very strong teachers unions protect the teachers from being dismissed. A principal will have to work very hard to get rid of an unfit teacher.
What makes it even worse is the lack of teachers (am not even referring to the quality of teachers) but especially - lack of English and Sciences teachers. I think also computers, but this being taught as an extra and not basic topic.

[Ian Carmichael]

Hi Shaii,
I'm very interested on your perception of bizarre teachers (I often wonder how I'm perceived in the classroom by the majority of students. I'm sure my pictore of myself is very different from theirs!)
I got described in a French class just that way "Il est... bizarre" - so the teacher told me later. To me its a balance between between some individuality - which I think is important for a living teacher to show, and off-putting eccentricity.
One challenge is to demonstrate that teachers are still learners - not package deliverers or slightly learned postmen! So, I hope my students are aware that I'm still thinking, still reading, still learning new things, still excited by knowledge and its applications, still looking for wisdom. (And if I can't show that, why would any student want to ask me a real question: one that doesn't come out of the curriculum box?)

[Or-Tal Kiriati]

Hi Ian,
I was just telling my husband about our daughter's observation, and we started going over some teachers.
One of the most beloved teachers of my kids (she taught Shaii one class, and has been teaching my son (now 6th grade) for the past 2 years), is a science teacher. She can definitely be described as bizarre - but it's not the kind of bizarre that would turn kids off. She is so enthusiastic about what she teaches, and so keen on listening to the kids and flowing with their desires - that there isn't a single kid in school that doesn't adore her.
She is about 50 years old. Her hair style is not the most fashionable - curly, almost afro. She dresses pretty sloppy (no dress code for teachers in Israel) - jeans and t-shirt in most cases. She speaks really fast. She always appears happy and extremely energetic. An example of above mentioned "flowing": in one of the classes the discussion touched a side topic which my son was interested about. After class he asked her if they are going to learn more about it. She explained that it isn't included in the curriculum, but if he is interested she will gladly guide him into creating a presentation about the topic, and he will get 20 minutes in class to share this topic with his classmates.

So the bizarre that is attentive to the students would never be a problem. Might not even be perceived as bizarre.

The problem is when a bizarre appearance is coupled with inability to communicate with the students. Strangely enough, if I am looking at the most uncommunicative teachers we've had the opportunity to meet - they very often have a bizarre look - extremely strange makeup/hair color/cloths - which serves the dis-communication with the students. It gives the students a sort of excuse to look at the teacher and say - this person is not only uncommunicative with us, but also with "the world" - look at how they look...

[Shaii Kiriati]

Hi Ian,
Well, the word 'bizarre' can have many meanings.
Bizarre can be both good or bad- unlike stupid, which is always a bad thing. When we say someone is a good teacher, it means he is not boring, he is nice to us, and his exams are easy-bizarre has nothing to do with it. Many times, bizare means different, and it sure can be a good thing!

[Ellen Pham]

Well, I think we have to go back to what is education for... in the eyes/purposes of government and industry. Most adult tasks we get paid for are mind-numbingly boring. Even in research jobs that are available to the recent graduate, the research assistant is performing the most dull, routine tasks of somebody else's research. I don't think the purpose of today's public education is to develop large groups of free and creative thinkers. How would industry keep them in line for the menial tasks that await them? And in any system, these menial tasks have to be done by a large group of people. I think it helps the individual soul when these tasks are at least essential, and not just for making someone else profit.

The way I see it is that realistically, in the system we have, it is up to the individual student to keep his/her curiosity alive. Parents, concerned teachers, and students can fight for more engaged and creative curriculum, but it remains an uphill swim.

[Ellen Pham]

Shaii, your dilemma reminds me of this quote from Einstein:

This came out of a powerpoint presentation David made, Educational Quotes. I've added it as an attachment.

[Or-Tal Kiriati]

I like it. :-) Thanks Ellen!

[Ellen Pham]

I thought of you too, Or-Tal :D David makes lots of great powerpoints... I'll try to find a place for the best ones here : )

[Or-Tal Kiriati]

thank you all for your comments.
Mike, you wrote "Wonder why adults ...who choose to go into teaching.... keep the system and the people with-in it so dis-connected." - I was wondering about it too.
I don't know how it is in other countries, but I think that in Israel many of the teachers I have encountered actually chose this profession because of various considerations such as comfortable hours - great vacations - a good profession for mothers, and also because this is a profession which is relatively easy to acquire. Almost anybody with a high school diploma can learn to become a teacher.
Of course I do know teachers who chose this profession out of love of teaching, passion for education, a feeling of a life mission etc. But those are few, and most often, those are the teachers with whom the kids do connect.

I also think that this is one of the toughest professions in terms of erosion, wear, fatigue that teachers often accumulate after years of teaching. You need to be rather special in what you do to keep the new things coming, to maintain some sort of freshness. Yet most teachers find themselves repeat the same curriculum for years, in front of large classes, of increasingly uninterested students, with increasing discipline problems... That's the image I see, rather clearly, in the last decade of experiencing the system as a mother.

The dis-connection, or distance, is sometime a tool to help teachers survive the system and remain sane. Sometimes, it's an easier approach then trying to befriend your students. Sometimes you don't get a chance to befriend, because there are so many students and for them there are so many teachers....

No doubt the system has to change.
When I talk about personalization - as a global trend in all industries - it's not just adjusting for the individual student, but also making room for the individual teacher. Creative teachers, allowed a little more room in their work, might get a lot better results then what they do get, having to work according to the "system rules".