Grades

[Shaii Kiriati]

What do you think about grades?
How should grades be given?
Should students give the teachers grades too?
What about exams and tests? How should it work?
Do grades should be given at all?

I have a dilemma about 'what the teacher thinks about you' as a part of the grade:
On the one hand, if you want to have good grades, you need to know how to make the teacher happy not less, and sometimes even more, than you need to know what he teaches.
On the other hand, sometimes there are students that just can't make it through the exams-they may know the subject very well and even teach others about it, but in the exam nothing goes the way it is supposed to. Students like that need the teacher's opinion as a part of the grade when the teacher knows they deserve higher grades. What do you think about it?

I'll be happy to hear your opinions!

[Ian Carmichael]

Very neat strategy, Ed. I think I'll have a run at something like that in my Applied Maths group next year - since again, it really homes in on process and understanding - and the grade at the end (an A for all possibility) is a very juicy carrot indeed.

[Or-Tal Kiriati]

This "cheating" is a conception I really dislike. Why not openly admit that collaboration is OK and it's part of any learning process?
I mean, I am founding 2 startup companies at the moment. I am the originator of the idea, but there is this much I can do by myself. I look for partners, or co-founder, to help me solve those things I am not master of. This collaboration, team work, the ability to admit you are facing a difficulty or something you don't know is a very important value to acquire. Do you think your students will be less co-operative if they learn that they are not "cheating" but actually doing it the right way?

[Connie Weber]

Hi Or-Tal,
Cheating would be a good topic all in itself. What constitutes cheating? When is it collaboration, when is it cheating?
I find it worth defining with the students in class. It's particular to the context and agreed-upon definitions.
There's a pretty clear difference.
Cheating, the real kind of cheating, is worth investigating. Why does it go on?
Here's a super-thoughtful list of articles on cheating. It's from the GoodWork Toolkit Library. When you get there, look at "Cheating and Performance Enhancement" and you'll have the link to a batch of articles.

[Or-Tal Kiriati]

Thanks, will look into it.

[Ed Hitchcock]

I am perfectly open with them, and tell them that the whole point of the exercise is to encourage collaboration and peer support. But they are told so often in so may of their classes that they are NOT allowed to do so, that it feels like cheating. Perhaps I should say, more like sneaking-a-cookie-between-meals cheating than crib-notes-on-a-test cheating.

[Laura Gibbs]

Ha ha, I love this idea of the different kinds of cheating, Ed! To me, that is a big problem with talking about cheating, since we know there are so many kinds, and they are not created equal.

Here are the kinds of cheating I see in my classes, and they make me feel bad because it shows that the students are not learning (it does not show that they are bad people...). I would call them:

cheating-because-CRAP-I ran-out-of-time-to-finish-the-assignment

cheating-because-????-I-have-no-idea-what-this-assignment-expects-of-me

cheating-because-YAWN-I-am-bored-out-of-my-mind

[Ed Hitchcock]

To this I would also add:

cheating-for-the-thrill-of-it

cheating-cause-if-I-don't-get-into-commerce/pre-med/engineering-my-parents-will-kill-me

[Connie Weber]

Laura, thank you for your kind words, and particularly for the memory of the class you loved. The model of learning you described is indeed similar to how things go in my class.

Oh, what a trouble maker you were in your new school, doing so much so fast and not fitting in!

My elementary school was so boring that I think I've caught myself up in a perpetual undoing of that: I want the children I teach to NOT experience what I experienced, and what you experienced in your new setting.

BTW, I want my son to be in your class--as I've told you before. He would thrive in your online Latin programs. He would be in heaven with your projects!!!!

[Shaii Kiriati]

Actually, I didn't hate my elementary school so much, but the higher grade I got to, the less I liked school.
I started to seriously get bored in school at high school. My elementary school wasn't all that grate, but there were interesting things there, in addition of regular learning. I don't remember it, but my mom say I went to school sometime even though I was sick.
In high school, I started to often get what we call 'the skipping disease'-I was so bored I told the teacher I don't feel well and asked to go home. Somethimes, I really felt like I'm sick, and I'm pretty sure It was all in my head.
I think it's because I thought once school is important and really teach me things, and now the oly thing that ties me to school is my friend. Both me and most of my friends are in this ridiculous state: we are bored in school and want to leave it, but we stay because we have friend there.
I wonder where can I find teachers who teach like on this website, in an interesting and not so stressful way, so students won't suffer so much at school.

[Or-Tal Kiriati]

So Connie,
How can your method be further developed to accommodate middle school? Or even high-school? Can it?

Obviously it's important to be able to offer kids the chance to develop a passion for learning, not to mention a methodology for researching loved topic. But it seems to me that the further we go the deeper we get into the grade system, and really, there is no escape.

Is there?
Can things change?

[Connie Weber]

Hi Or-Tal,

I'm not the one who knows best about middle school and high school. I hope some people from 6th-12th speak up! I know I worked with some very dynamic educators at Project Zero and Future of Learning who now how to make learning exciting, meaningful, even thrilling... Here's an example of a meaningful project, check this out:

The Shelter Project

Also, Edutopia is filled with excellent examples of meaningful ways to "do education..."

[Todd Elkin]

Connie-

Thanks so much for Linking to the Shelter Project (see above). I'd be glad to talk about this with anyone!
Some browsing tips: I suggest reading the introductory stuff at the top, then scrolling all the way down and read sequentially from "bottom up". There is a lot of communication between the students in Fremont, Oakland, and Bangalore in the "comments" sections for individual posts. In a post from June 10th, there is a great video in which my students, who want to give their completed shelters to homeless people, have a Skype exchange with the east Oakland students who take issue with this idea.
Also-folks were asking about grades--the reflections near the top of the page-my students reflecting on the unit's understanding goals, were part of their final assessment for this series of projects.

I'm thrilled to be finally joining this forum-I've been meaning to forever!!!

all the best,

Todd